Problem with sub bass

So im having a slight problem with my mixes, im trying to get a really big sub bass with out it distorting or drowning out the drums. Every time i limit / Master my main channel the sub gets distorted and drowns out the drum tracks a lil. I have tried sidechaining the sub to the kick / snare and it helps a little. Ive also tried to reduce the volume of the subbass channel but it continues to distorts until its too quiet.

Im aiming for this kinda sound.

https://soundcloud.com/12gauge/12gauge-64

I don't know what DAW you're using, but here's how I do my sidechain on FL Studio.

- My kick is, by default, routed to the master channel. That being said, I also route it into two empty channels and apply a peak controller on both of them.

- I then route all of my channels to one single premaster channel. Sometimes I decide not to sidechain some sounds, hi-hats for example.

- Next step is to put an EQ on the premaster channel. Within this EQ, you have to create a band that looks like this : http://puu.sh/3zG5n.jpg

It's important to know that kicks hit the subs the most at 80-90hz, depending their tuning (which explains the 80 to 120hz band).

- After that, I use the two channels with the peak limiters as controllers with those settings : http://puu.sh/3zGiC.png

One for the 80-120hz band, which goes pretty deep below 0db, and the other one for a subtly ducking on the overall track/high end.

After that's done, it's important to use your ears to find the best settings for the amount of ducking you want to apply.

Rogue pretty much covered this technique in one of his videos, which you can find

But in my opinion, the best kicks are those with a clear, crispy and punchy highs which will sound good if the mixdown is good. I don't say I have the cleanest sidechain ever, but it does the job well ! I might try using CamelSpace in order to make ghost kicks someday.

PS : Your post would have fitted better in the "Producing" category, just saying ;)

It sounds like your mixdown isnt quite where it needs to be.

Have you tried seeing with a spek analyzer how 'loud' the sub actually is? It might just be that on your headphones/monitors that the sub seems quieter than it actually is. So when you go to "master" (mastering is not compressing/limiting the shit out of your track btw ;) ) the sub-bass is clipping the master bus.

Also in my experience its more helpful to control the kick and sub interaction with EQ'ing rather than sidechaining. Sounds much better on a system when your sub isn't getting ducked super heavily. And it also sounds better when there's clear frequency separation between the kick's bass and the sub bass. (in my opinion at least)

It would be more helpful too if you posted an example of the problem at hand.

Thanks guys helped out alot!

Also in my experience its more helpful to control the kick and sub interaction with EQ'ing rather than sidechaining.

I didn't quite get that part. Frequency ducking rather than volume ducking ?

^ An example would be lowpassing/or notching your sub around 120 hz, then highpassing/or notching your kick around 120 hz.

The bass from the kick is still there but its not gonna be reaching into the subbass area of the freq range.

I dont mean sidechaining the EQ either, I just mean a passive EQ on the drum/sub bass at all times.

In so many words, I just mean making sure the kick and sub's freq's aren't clashing together. Keeping the low end clean is super important in the mix.

Sorry, im not too good at explaining this stuff haha. I just know it! If this is still confusing, I can try to explain it in more depth.

edit: also just want to say im far from being a professional or an audio engineer, but i've talked at length with Jack Sparrow (from Author) about the pros and cons of sidechaining kicks to the sub as opposed to a passive EQ cut and for the most part a passive EQ is gonna give you better results on a big system. Just a little context.

^ another point i would add to this decent point, is a common misconception that kicks or more specifically kick drums, are low-freq instruments. They are in fact low-mid, the bass is what takes the majority of the sonic space in the lower end of things. I really started to get my kicks to pop in my mixes when i started thinking of the kick drum as a low mid sound and thus should occupy a slight different sonic space than the bass. Yes they do over lap, but the main thing brudda was getting at was the concept of making a sonic landscape so to speak, everything in its own place.

I am aware that edm styles of music do emphisize the kick more, but still as matter of making tight mixes that play well across a wide range of systems, this is your best approach. For my money, and from what most engineers and mastering engineers that have been around for awhile (mastering many hit records), the best thing a producer that also performs can do is have separate mixes for standard and large systems. You are never going to get a track that sounds fat on computer speaks, car speakers, etc.. sound "full" on a large system (i.e venue systems) and neither are you going to be able to make track that sounds full on large system not sound thin on regular systems; which is of course what 99% of people listen on.

point? it really does matter what you are trying to achieve as which direction you will go with the mix, so its hard to say do this or do that :D

^Yus, well said

^Yus, well said

ur thnx count is @ 420 :D

Well guys, thanks for the tips :) I'll definitely give the passive technique a try.